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Re: INSIGHT - TURKMENISTAN - new daddy warbucks

Released on 2012-02-27 00:00 GMT

Email-ID 1687728
Date 1970-01-01 01:00:00
Yeah, think about it... the financial "groundwork" does not in any way
shape or form easily translate into military framework... You're talking
about Russia's soft underbelly. If this was Africa, or Latin America, or
some equally distant place where the Beijing and Moscow were starting off
on the same level, I would agree with you Reva.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodger Baker"
To: "Reva Bhalla"
Cc: "Marko Papic" , "Lauren Goodrich"
, "Secure List" , "Eugene
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:19:42 AM GMT -05:00 Colombia
Subject: Re: INSIGHT - TURKMENISTAN - new daddy warbucks

its gonna take a hell of a paradigm shift for the chinese to deploy troops
into central asia to take on the russians.
On Jun 23, 2009, at 11:16 AM, Reva Bhalla wrote:

if China lays the financial groundwork now in Central Asia, what stops
Beijing from raising that to a military level down the line? Would it
necessarily be deterred by the Russians every time?
On Jun 23, 2009, at 11:15 AM, Marko Papic wrote:

Again though, Russia feels that it can... on a long enough of a
timeline... overcome any Chinese influence built up by loans to the
region. I am not saying that this PoV is going to prove correct for
Russia, just that this is how Russia thinks.

Therefore, how is this latest Chinese loan any different from Chinese
presence in the region in the past 5 years. Russia has allowed all of
it to come to pass because they feel they can swoop in and reap the
benefits at a later point when the investments bear fruits.

The question there is whether that is the point when Russia and China
start having some real beef... whether such conflict is "built-in" by
the Russian attitude right now. But that is an alltogether different

----- Original Message -----
From: "Reva Bhalla"
To: "Rodger Baker"
Cc: "Marko Papic" , "Lauren Goodrich"
, "Secure List" , "Eugene
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:10:37 AM GMT -05:00 Colombia
Subject: Re: INSIGHT - TURKMENISTAN - new daddy warbucks

I asked the same thing. Lauren said separate. and turkmenistan isn't
in SCO
On Jun 23, 2009, at 11:09 AM, Rodger Baker wrote:

china was never harmless, though, which is what I was saying. But
russia would allow China to play around because eventually perhaps
Russia still has the upper hand in influence, and can gain more
control over assets in region. That said, China is making numerous
cash offers - do we know, for example, if this loan is under the
recent deal China announced at SCO or separate?
But what will russia do in return? it aint gonna attack china. it
did (again) delay its pipeline in the north to China.
On Jun 23, 2009, at 11:07 AM, Reva Bhalla wrote:

it's thrown money, but we're in a slightly different context now.
The region is getting hammered by the financial crisis and Russia
has gone out of its way to screw turkmenistan. Then here comes
China to the rescue.
that's not very harmless from moscow's PoV, at least in my mind
On Jun 23, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Rodger Baker wrote:

China has thrown money after central asia. it is only careful in
that it doesnt send troops like russia does.
On Jun 23, 2009, at 10:52 AM, Reva Bhalla wrote:

now how does this balance out with Russian security guarantees
for the Central Asians?
China has always been very careful in treading on Moscow's
turf. Isn't this the kind of thing that would escalate
On Jun 23, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Marko Papic wrote:

Nice, the Chinese are a real alternative to BOTH IMF and
Russia... plus they have more money essentially than both.

Eugene, take note of this situation... Good to maybe mention
in the overall Russian loan piece.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lauren Goodrich"
To: "Secure List" , "Eugene Chausovsky"

Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:24:02 AM GMT -05:00 Colombia
Subject: INSIGHT - TURKMENISTAN - new daddy warbucks

I literally and accidentally ran into the Turkmen energy
minister in the swimming pool today while we were both doing
lapsa*| we got to talking on the side of the pool. (no code
bc he won't be a regular source of course)

We started off lightly talking about who is getting projects
in the country with him confirming Russia snagging a lot of
the infrastructure, but that China is getting some very real
projects like South Yolotan field which he says holds 6 tcm
(which would make it one of the top 5 deposits in the
world). China will pay $3 billion for it.

Then I brought up the continued Russian cut-off of natural
gas. He said that hea**ll return to Ashgabat on Thursday
where hea**ll be in meetings with Beredimukhammedov and
Zubkov(who is pretty much in charge of Russo-Turkmen
relations for the Kremlin now). Zubkov is already in
Ashgabat and is planning on staying a**as long as needed to
get things sorteda** with the Turkmen.

I asked if thing could get sorted with Russia in a hell of a
position and not budging yet. He said he did not know but
that when he talked to Berdimukhammedov about the Russians
that the prez was a**furiousa** at Russiaa**s gall to treat
them this way.

I then very uncomfortably brought up the fact that theya**re
losing a billion a month and that this could potentially
bankrupt their country. He smiled really big and said that
they would be just fine. That their situation looked
terrible this past month. Turkmen FM Meredov had gone and
talked to the Europeans a few weeks ago to see if they had
any solutions (meaning IMF loans, etc.), but that they were
no help at all.

So Meredov went to China last week striking the Yolotan
deal, but also another deal in which China would a**loana**
Turkemenistan $3-5 billion. The terms have not been
finalized, but China said they could get them the cash
quickly, which is what Ashgabat needs.
Lauren Goodrich
Director of Analysis
Senior Eurasia Analyst
T: 512.744.4311
F: 512.744.4334