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Re: DISCUSSION - Spanish protesters

Released on 2012-03-23 07:00 GMT

Email-ID 177614
Date 2011-11-11 17:32:01
violence is human nature. you dont "learn" how to stop it. you learn how
to use a compass, you learn how to build a nuclear reactor, how to
manufacture birth control. societies don't "learn" their way out of hate
and fear of the unknown. humans have and will continue to react violently
against it. urbanized intellectuals can be some of the most savage
individuals when their systems break down. there is a very thin veil
between civilization and savagery.


From: "Carlos Lopez Portillo"
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 10:23:28 AM
Subject: Re: DISCUSSION - Spanish protesters

I agree in this one. Maybe they have learned from history, maybe they
haven't, and will experience new things in a new developing world context,
with more technology, communications, sort of global logic. Recent and
historical events, as Bayless said, can have connections (1960s-1970s
social movements), that's for granted (French Revolution ideas is a very
good example). But I think that in this particular protest in Spain, it
will be more a national type of unrest belonging to Spanish issues more
than a viral-European one.

On 11/11/11 10:14 AM, George Friedman wrote:

Europe has not had mass violent protests since the 1960s although it has
had violence and terrorism. Its been quiet since the 1990s if you ignore

The europeans regard this new period as normal and the past as
irrelevant. It seems to me that the radical shifts in structure returns
europe to its prior state and with it mass violence becomes likely not
just possible. Europe has a violent history and that history is not so
long ago.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


From: Colby Martin
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:10:30 -0600 (CST)
ReplyTo: Analyst List
Subject: Re: DISCUSSION - Spanish protesters
I am not sure how you can argue European protesters are not going to
turn to violence and the authorities won't resort to draconian measures
to suppress them. Right now the unemployed still have those nice little
social programs (especially in Spain) to support them so I agree right
now they should remain low key. But if the gov't has to reduce those
programs or cut them altogether, the protests could turn into bad in a
hurry. I just want to make sure this isn't the European argument that
"they" are more civilized, therefore violence is a thing of the past. (I
throw up in my mouth a little every time a European tells me this)

On 11/11/11 9:51 AM, Antonio Caracciolo wrote:

I see your point, but what i dont agree with is when we imply that
protests that happened in Tunisia can be compared to possible future
ones in Europe. the word protests is very different when you compare
north africa and european nations. A protest during the Arab spring,
implied death injured and so on. A protest in europe (i.e Italy and
Spain) is just a march that isnt a big deal. Rome marches were the
same, nothing happened despite the fact that the Media made a big deal
out of literally burnt cars by punks.

On 11/11/11 9:48 AM, Bayless Parsley wrote:

You're changing the argument. Your assertion that things can't
spread from country to country because they are based on national
issues is flawed. You have similar economic conditions in almost
every European country at the moment. The issues aren't the same as
what existed in the Arab world last winter, and nor are the nature
of the regimes in power. No one is saying that. What we're saying is
that Tunisia provides an example of how protest movements have the
ability to spread to other countries that feature similar
socioeconomic conditions.

On 11/11/11 9:38 AM, Antonio Caracciolo wrote:

Protests in Egypt that spread all over the place were based on the
ability of people to say what they want and be able to get a
decent rule of law and government. In Europe we have that,
unfortunately we have a shitty economy, the protests are there but
are unrelated because each country has its own way to approach the
economic issues. We wont kill each other like people in north
Africa, were past that, and again no offense to people from the
region. Europeans live for the most part in democracies,
expressing a discontent (which is what is happening now) is
different from fighting for your freedom (i.e Egypt, Tunisia,

On 11/11/11 9:34 AM, Bayless Parsley wrote:

Without wading into the particulars of this discussion, I will
just say that your logic re: national protests not being able to
spread to other countries is flawed. How were the gripes of
Egyptians last January related to the national uprising in
Tunisia? And so on.

On 11/11/11 9:19 AM, Antonio Caracciolo wrote:

I personally don't agree with this statement "these protests
could lead to an open societal crisis in Spain and spark to
other countries". What we have in Europe is NATIONAL protests.
These protests focus on the NATIONAL parliament and cannot
therefore spread in Europe. You might have them in several
countries but i dont think they spread because they are
unrelated (despite the same economic shitty background) Plus,
protests of this kind are usually peaceful, there is a decent
level of understanding within the crowds that protests that
killing each other isn't going to make a difference. Now we
might have like always the 20 idiots that ruin it for everyone
(think of the Rome revolts) but i dont foresee any dead or
injured people. Protests dont automatically imply "bad" events
to come

On 11/11/11 8:02 AM, Christoph Helbling wrote:

these protests could lead to an open societal crisis in
Spain and spark to other countries. Are these protests going
to breed the future leaders of Europe?

Antonio Caracciolo
Analyst Development Program
221 W. 6th Street, Suite 400
Austin,TX 78701

Antonio Caracciolo
Analyst Development Program
221 W. 6th Street, Suite 400
Austin,TX 78701

Antonio Caracciolo
Analyst Development Program
221 W. 6th Street, Suite 400
Austin,TX 78701

Colby Martin
Tactical Analyst

Carlos Lopez Portillo M.
M: +1 512 814 9821