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Contact in Greece

Released on 2012-03-07 18:00 GMT

Email-ID 63141
Date 2007-06-20 16:55:21
This is an open call if anyone would like to use this contact/source. He
is a paid subscriber and works as a researcher in the Greek Military. He
is also submits articles to an online defense journal. This can also be seen as a
BizDev lead with the magazine, so I am including Todd & Aaric as well.

George Tsiboukis

0030 210 8029709

Either way he sounds very knowledgeable when we've spoken and is an avid
reader. I've included one of his past emails some of you may of already
seen. He called me up yesterday to talk about Kosovo, the rise of the "New
Democratic Party" in Greece, military procurement problems, and aerial dog
fighting that has been happening in the Mediterranean. I'm sure he would
love to contribute any information we could use in our analysis.

Let me know if I can provide any more info about him.

Solomon Foshko

T: 512.744.4089
F: 512.744.4334

Well here as you know we had the KYSEA. According to the information I
have the priorities for new programms are.
-New SAR and CSAR helicopoters for the Air Force (15 and 2 respectivelly)
14-32 New helicopters TTH-90 for the Army, the initial plan was for 14
units, recently they discuss for 20 more. Soon we will see how this number
will be distributed throughout the 5 next years. 2 CSAR are included in
these 32 new units. The final plan talks for 48 transport hilos and 6 CSAR
hilos. Therefore by 2010 there will be a fleet of 48 TTH-90, 6 TTH-90+ 8
Super Puma in CSAR role.
-6 New Frigates with AAW capacities probanly the French Italian Horizon
type, although the Germans are playing hard because although we had
promised to the Germans to buy 30-40 Typhoon the new KYSEA did not take
any decision postopoining that for the year 2010 when F-35 will have
reached at its final stages of development promising a hard competition.
The Air Force ceiling is 310 airplanes. With the last summers order the
Airforce by 2010 wil have 35 F-4 PI2000, 22 RF-4E, 25 M-2000MK-5,
21M-2000, 89 F-16 BLK52+, 32 F-16 BLK30, 40 F-16 BLK 50, 43 A-7E and
TA-7C Total, 307 Airplanes. Soon there is going to be a need for 100 new
plans. Probably there are going to be an upgrating programme for the
remaining M-2000, perhaps 10 new M-2000Mk5 to cover loses. Important to
mention that the M-2000Mk5 can use the substrategic SCALP-ER missile (90
units) and the AS-39 Exocet missiles (39 units).
-Development with the French the Swiss and the Sweedish a new UCAV Neuron.
Greece seems to turn to the development of a number of UCAV, UAV SEAD/EW,
UAV for all the three banches of the Armed Forces. The budget is
significant and the number of the systems they want to buy are huge for
the Greek standards. It seems that we are heading for the 1 fighter plane
2-3 UCAV commanded by the plan combination
- French Sattelite reconnaisance BOC-HELLIOS and sattelite
telecommunication systems, high priority
-New 155mm German Howitzers since our friends the Americans do not allow
to the Germans to sell to us 168 M-109 from the German surplus. Propable
number 48-168 even construction under licesence is possible
-Updrating programme for the 4 MEKO 200 frigates. The fleet will have 6 S
Type upgrated Frigates, 4 Meko 200 Upgrated also and 6 new I guesss
Horizon Frigates. Four of them will be AAW and the other 2 have not been
decided, 2 S Type for training. Total 16+2 boats, 7 modern submarines (4
T-214, 3 T-209AIP 1 T-209 training), 8 modern gunboats for sea border
patrols, (perhaps 4 more we will see), 2 old US boats, 7 Super Vita FAC
missile boats (5 ready 2+1 under discussion), 4 Combattand upgrateded FAC
missile boats, 7 modern minesweepers, 4 Zubr, 5 modern LST, 1 AOR, 1 LPD
under discussion, 3 Seahawks hilos. As you can see besides the
minesweepers the rest of the boats are European. Another mistake of the US
-84 Wheeled AIFV carriers, Finnish, Austrian, French or German candidates
- 5 Maritime ASW airplanes, there is a discussion for 12 S-3 Viking plans
instead it depence on the US proposal
-Uprgading 9 CH-47D
-Upgrading the existing 20 AH-64A+ hilos to the AH-64D level
-291 AIFV, German PUMA or Sweedish CV-90 systems
Several medium and small other programmes

The problem with the Greek Armed Forces is not the quality of its arms nor
the quality of the personnel but the luck of long term strategic vision
and the fear for the reaction of the antimilitary public opinion that does
not like to see involvement of Greek Armed Forces in conflicts. You see we
are too much pacifists for the neighburhood we live. The businessmen and
an academic elite does not believe in the idea of the use of military
force. On the contrary they are characterised by their compromising ideas
even for issues of high national interest. They believe and in a great
level they have convinced the public opinion that problems could be solved
if you show more understanding and retriet to the claims of our, always
demading something, friends the Turks.It is funny but if you read the
related bibliography for the Greek-Turkish disputes it has been Turkey
that always demaded something from Greece not the oposite. I will attach
you a study done by a US Navy Officer regarding one of the Greek Turkish
disputes. I believe that it is a good way to start learning about our

This Government at the moment is trying to follow the EU instructions for
lower debts and less expencies and they want to pay first the debts of the
previous Government and reduce the perecentage of the GDP spend for the
military procurement. I really do not know how they are going to do that.
As it looks like the only US stronghold is the Airforce. All the US MBT
will be withdrawn from the Greek Army soon and replaced by the Leo-1A5,
Leo-2A4, Leo-2A6HEL. The new Marder1A3 AIFV will replace the old BMP-1 and
some M-113. In few words the persistance of the US Government to link
politics with Armament procurement has reduced the existence of US systems
in the Greek Armed Forces especially in the Navy and slowly but stadily in
the Greek Army. European industries have gained huge contracts over the
last few years. The same applies for Britain that gained only 1 major
programme the last 10 years. The presence of the British Defence companies
in Greece is very small. The Russians have won bigger contracts. Both
countries UK and US have lost billions of dollars mainly because of their
positions for the Cypriot issue and the Greek Turkish disputes. I do not
know what are the benefits from this policy but I know something very well
that in Berlin, Paris, Stockholm and Moscow they do parties all these
years when Greece buys Defence systems.

Now for the Foreign Office I am skeptical for what they can. I do not want
to go through more details because I might be wrong.
I hope that the information I send will cover your interest for the Greek
developments. Soon I will have more details for the new Greek Armament
procurement programmes and I will send you updates.

The conclusion is that in Greece we do not believe on our own abilities we
have the warphovic syndrom as they call it and spend billions of dollars
on arms with no solid result, it is like an investment that does not give
you back anything but only few bits of God knows what. A country that
spends a lot of money on arms but is afraid or trying not to use them does
not have the respect of the others. This is my opinion I am not saying
that we should become the gangsters of the region but from time to time is
good to say no and show to the rest of the world, respecting above all
the international laws and the UN charter, that you can use your power
whatever this could be.

Best Wishes

Enjoy your reading